[The US war of aggression in Korea murdered 5 million Koreans. Part of that murder was the cold blooded executions of over 100,000 leftists and suspected leftists by the South Korean government in 1950. Over 54,000 U.S. soldiers died in the U.S. war to defend that murderous U.S. imposed regime. The following AP article exposes what many on the left have known about for decades, but has been hidden from the general public in the United States by the government and corporate media. -Steven Argue]
AP Probes 'Cold-Blooded Slaughter' in South Korea
www.editorandpublisher.com/eand...y.jsp
By CHARLES J. HANLEY and JAE-SOON CHANG, The Associated Press
Published: May 18, 2008 4:15 PM ET
DAEJEON Grave by mass grave, South Korea is unearthing the skeletons and buried truths of a cold-blooded slaughter from early in the Korean War, when this nation's U.S.-backed regime killed untold thousands of leftists and hapless peasants in a summer of terror in 1950.
With U.S. military officers sometimes present, and as North Korean invaders pushed down the peninsula, the southern army and police emptied South Korean prisons, lined up detainees and shot them in the head, dumping the bodies into hastily dug trenches. Others were thrown into abandoned mines or into the sea. Women and children were among those killed. Many victims never faced charges or trial.
The mass executions - intended to keep possible southern leftists from reinforcing the northerners - were carried out over mere weeks and were largely hidden from history for a half-century. They were ``the most tragic and brutal chapter of the Korean War,'' said historian Kim Dong-choon, a member of a 2-year-old government commission investigating the killings.
Hundreds of sets of remains have been uncovered so far, but researchers say they are only a tiny fraction of the deaths. The commission estimates at least 100,000 people were executed, in a South Korean population of 20 million.
That estimate is based on projections from local surveys and is ``very conservative,'' said Kim. The true toll may be twice that or more, he told The Associated Press.
In addition, thousands of South Koreans who allegedly collaborated with the communist occupation were slain by southern forces later in 1950, and the invaders staged their own executions of rightists.
Through the postwar decades of South Korean right-wing dictatorships, victims' fearful families kept silent about that blood-soaked summer. American military reports of the South Korean slaughter were stamped ``secret'' and filed away in Washington. Communist accounts were dismissed as lies.
Only since the 1990s, and South Korea's democratization, has the truth begun to seep out.
In 2002, a typhoon's fury uncovered one mass grave. Another was found by a television news team that broke into a sealed mine. Further corroboration comes from a trickle of declassified U.S. military documents, including U.S. Army photographs of a mass killing outside this central South Korean city.
Now Kim's Truth and Reconciliation Commission has added government authority to the work of scattered researchers, family members and journalists trying to peel away the long-running cover-up. The commissioners have the help of a handful of remorseful old men.
``Even now, I feel guilty that I pulled the trigger,'' said Lee Joon-young, 83, one of the executioners in a secluded valley near Daejeon in early July 1950.
The retired prison guard told the AP he knew that many of those shot and buried en masse were ordinary convicts or illiterate peasants wrongly ensnared in roundups of supposed communist sympathizers. They didn't deserve to die, he said. They ``knew nothing about communism.''
The 17 investigators of the commission's subcommittee on ``mass civilian sacrifice,'' led by Kim, have been dealing with petitions from more than 7,000 South Koreans, involving some 1,200 alleged incidents - not just mass planned executions, but also 215 cases in which the U.S. military is accused of the indiscriminate killing of South Korean civilians in 1950-51, usually in air attacks.
The commission last year excavated sites at four of an estimated 150 mass graves around the country, recovering remains of more than 400 people. Working deliberately, matching documents to eyewitness and survivor testimony, it has officially confirmed two large-scale executions - at a warehouse in the central South Korean county of Cheongwon, and at Ulsan on the southeast coast.
In January, then-President Roh Moo-hyun, under whose liberal leadership the commission was established, formally apologized for the more than 870 deaths confirmed at Ulsan, calling them ``illegal acts the then-state authority committed.''
The commission, with no power to compel testimony or prosecute, faces daunting tasks both in verifying events and identifying victims, and in tracing a chain of responsibility. Under Roh's conservative successor, Lee Myung-bak, whose party is seen as democratic heir to the old autocratic right wing, the commission may find less budgetary and political support.
The roots of the summer 1950 bloodbath lie in the U.S.-Soviet division of Japan's former Korea colony in 1945, which precipitated north-south turmoil and eventual war.
In the late 1940s, President Syngman Rhee's U.S.-installed rightist regime crushed leftist political activity in South Korea, including a guerrilla uprising inspired by the communists ruling the north. By 1950, southern jails were packed with up to 30,000 political prisoners.
The southern government, meanwhile, also created the National Guidance League, a ``re-education'' organization for recanting leftists and others suspected of communist leanings. Historians say officials met membership quotas by pressuring peasants into signing up with promises of rice rations or other benefits. By 1950, more than 300,000 people were on the league's rolls, organizers said.
North Korean invaders seized Seoul, the southern capital, in late June 1950 and freed thousands of prisoners, who rallied to the northern cause. Southern authorities, in full retreat with their U.S. military advisers, ordered National Guidance League members in areas they controlled to report to the police, who detained them. Soon after, commission researchers say, the organized mass executions of people regarded as potential collaborators began - ``bad security risks,'' as a police official described the detainees at the time.
The declassified record of U.S. documents shows an ambivalent American attitude toward the killings. American diplomats that summer urged restraint on southern officials - to no obvious effect - but a State Department cable that fall said overall commander Gen. Douglas MacArthur viewed the executions as a Korean ``internal matter,'' even though he controlled South Korea's military.
Ninety miles south of Seoul, here in the narrow, peaceful valley of Sannae, truckloads of prisoners were brought in from Daejeon Prison and elsewhere day after day in July 1950, as the North Koreans bore down on the city.
The American photos, taken by an Army major and kept classified for a half-century, show the macabre sequence of events.
White-clad detainees - bent, submissive, with hands bound - were thrown down prone, jammed side by side, on the edge of a long trench. South Korean military and national policemen then stepped up behind, pointed their rifles at the backs of their heads and fired. The bodies were tipped into the trench.
Trembling policemen - ``they hadn't shot anyone before'' - were sometimes off-target, leaving men wounded but alive, Lee said. He and others were ordered to check for wounded and finish them off.
Evidence indicates South Korean executioners killed between 3,000 and 7,000 here, said commissioner Kim. A half-dozen trenches, each up to 150 yards long and full of bodies, extended over an area almost a mile long, said Kim Chong-hyun, 70, chairman of a group of bereaved families campaigning for disclosure and compensation for the Daejeon killings. His father, accused but never convicted of militant leftist activity, was one victim.
Another was Yeo Tae-ku's father, whose wife and mother searched for him afterward.
``Bodies were just piled upon each other,'' said Yeo, 59, remembering his mother's description. ``Arms would come off when they turned them over.'' The desperate women never found him, and the mass graves were quickly covered over, as were others in isolated spots up and down this mountainous peninsula, to be officially ``forgotten.''
When British communist journalist Alan Winnington entered Daejeon that summer with North Korean troops and visited the site, writing of ``waxy dead hands and feet (that) stick through the soil,'' his reports in the Daily Worker were denounced as ``fabrication'' by the U.S. Embassy in London. American military accounts focused instead on North Korean reprisal killings that followed in Daejeon.
But CIA and U.S. military intelligence documents circulating even before the Winnington report, classified ``secret'' and since declassified, told of the executions by the South Koreans. Lt. Col. Bob Edwards, U.S. Embassy military attache in South Korea, wrote in conveying the Daejeon photos to Army intelligence in Washington that he believed nationwide ``thousands of political prisoners were executed within (a) few weeks'' by the South Koreans.
Another glimpse of the carnage appeared in an unofficial U.S. source, an obscure memoir self-published in 1981 by the late Donald Nichols, a U.S. Air Force intelligence officer, who told of witnessing ``the unforgettable massacre of approximately 1,800 at Suwon,'' 20 miles south of Seoul.
Such reports lend credibility to a captured North Korean document from Aug. 2, 1950, eventually declassified by Washington, which spoke of mass executions in 12 South Korean cities, including 1,000 killed in Suwon and 4,000 in Daejeon.
That early, incomplete North Korean report couldn't include those executed in territory still held by the southerners. Up to 10,000 were killed in the city of Busan alone, a South Korean lawmaker, Park Chan-hyun, estimated in 1960.
His investigation came during a 12-month democratic interlude between the overthrow of Rhee and a government takeover by Maj. Gen. Park Chung-hee's authoritarian military, which quickly arrested many then probing for the hidden story of 1950.
Kim said his projection of at least 100,000 dead is based in part on extrapolating from a survey by non-governmental organizations in one province, Busan's South Gyeongsang, which estimated 25,000 killed there. And initial evidence suggests most of the National Guidance League's 300,000 members were killed, he said.
Commission investigators agree with the late Lt. Col. Edwards' note to Washington in 1950, that ``orders for execution undoubtedly came from the top,'' that is, President Rhee, who died in 1965.
But any documentary proof of that may have been destroyed, just as the facts of the mass killings themselves were buried. In 1953, after the war ended in stalemate, after the deaths of at least 2 million people, half or more of them civilians, a U.S. Army war crimes report attributed all summary executions here in Daejeon to the ``murderous barbarism'' of North Koreans.
Such myths survived a half-century, in part because those who knew the truth were cowed into silence.
``My mother destroyed all pictures of my father, for fear the family would get an image as leftists,'' said Koh Chung-ryol, 57, who is convinced her 29-year-old father was innocent of wrongdoing when picked up in a broad police sweep here, to die in Sannae valley.
``My mother tried hard to get rid of anything about her husband,'' she said. ``She suffered unspeakable pain.''
Even educated South Koreans remained ignorant of their country's past. As a young researcher in the late 1980s, Yonsei University's Park Myung-lim, today a leading Korean War historian, was deeply shaken as he sought out confidential accounts of those days from ordinary Koreans.
``I cried,'' he said. ``I felt, 'Oh, my goodness. Oh, Jesus. This was my country? It was true?'''
The Truth and Reconciliation Commission can recommend but not award compensation for lost and ruined lives, nor can it bring surviving perpetrators to justice. ``Our investigative power is so meager,'' commission President Ahn Byung-ook told the AP.
His immediate concern is resources. ``The current government isn't friendly toward us, and so we're concerned that the budget may be cut next year,'' he said.
South Korean conservatives complain the ``truth'' campaign will only reopen old wounds from a time when, even at the village level, leftists and rightists carried out bloody reprisals against each other.
The life of the commission - with a staff of 240 and annual budget of $19 million - is guaranteed by law until at least 2010, when it will issue a final, comprehensive report.
Later this spring and summer its teams will resume digging at mass grave sites. Thus far, it has verified 16 incidents of 1950-51 - not just large-scale detainee killings, but also such events as a South Korean battalion's cold-blooded killing of 187 men, women and children at Kochang village, supposed sympathizers with leftist guerrillas.
By exposing the truth of such episodes, ``we hope to heal the trauma and pain of the bereaved families,'' the commission says. It also wants to educate people, ``not just in Korea, but throughout the international community,'' to the reality of that long-ago conflict, to ``prevent such a tragic war from reoccurring in the future.''
CHARLES J. HANLEY and JAE-SOON CHANG, The Associated Press
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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AP Probes 'Cold-Blooded Slaughter' in South Korea
www.editorandpublisher.com/eand...y.jsp
By CHARLES J. HANLEY and JAE-SOON CHANG, The Associated Press
Published: May 18, 2008 4:15 PM ET
DAEJEON Grave by mass grave, South Korea is unearthing the skeletons and buried truths of a cold-blooded slaughter from early in the Korean War, when this nation's U.S.-backed regime killed untold thousands of leftists and hapless peasants in a summer of terror in 1950.
With U.S. military officers sometimes present, and as North Korean invaders pushed down the peninsula, the southern army and police emptied South Korean prisons, lined up detainees and shot them in the head, dumping the bodies into hastily dug trenches. Others were thrown into abandoned mines or into the sea. Women and children were among those killed. Many victims never faced charges or trial.
The mass executions - intended to keep possible southern leftists from reinforcing the northerners - were carried out over mere weeks and were largely hidden from history for a half-century. They were ``the most tragic and brutal chapter of the Korean War,'' said historian Kim Dong-choon, a member of a 2-year-old government commission investigating the killings.
Hundreds of sets of remains have been uncovered so far, but researchers say they are only a tiny fraction of the deaths. The commission estimates at least 100,000 people were executed, in a South Korean population of 20 million.
That estimate is based on projections from local surveys and is ``very conservative,'' said Kim. The true toll may be twice that or more, he told The Associated Press.
In addition, thousands of South Koreans who allegedly collaborated with the communist occupation were slain by southern forces later in 1950, and the invaders staged their own executions of rightists.
Through the postwar decades of South Korean right-wing dictatorships, victims' fearful families kept silent about that blood-soaked summer. American military reports of the South Korean slaughter were stamped ``secret'' and filed away in Washington. Communist accounts were dismissed as lies.
Only since the 1990s, and South Korea's democratization, has the truth begun to seep out.
In 2002, a typhoon's fury uncovered one mass grave. Another was found by a television news team that broke into a sealed mine. Further corroboration comes from a trickle of declassified U.S. military documents, including U.S. Army photographs of a mass killing outside this central South Korean city.
Now Kim's Truth and Reconciliation Commission has added government authority to the work of scattered researchers, family members and journalists trying to peel away the long-running cover-up. The commissioners have the help of a handful of remorseful old men.
``Even now, I feel guilty that I pulled the trigger,'' said Lee Joon-young, 83, one of the executioners in a secluded valley near Daejeon in early July 1950.
The retired prison guard told the AP he knew that many of those shot and buried en masse were ordinary convicts or illiterate peasants wrongly ensnared in roundups of supposed communist sympathizers. They didn't deserve to die, he said. They ``knew nothing about communism.''
The 17 investigators of the commission's subcommittee on ``mass civilian sacrifice,'' led by Kim, have been dealing with petitions from more than 7,000 South Koreans, involving some 1,200 alleged incidents - not just mass planned executions, but also 215 cases in which the U.S. military is accused of the indiscriminate killing of South Korean civilians in 1950-51, usually in air attacks.
The commission last year excavated sites at four of an estimated 150 mass graves around the country, recovering remains of more than 400 people. Working deliberately, matching documents to eyewitness and survivor testimony, it has officially confirmed two large-scale executions - at a warehouse in the central South Korean county of Cheongwon, and at Ulsan on the southeast coast.
In January, then-President Roh Moo-hyun, under whose liberal leadership the commission was established, formally apologized for the more than 870 deaths confirmed at Ulsan, calling them ``illegal acts the then-state authority committed.''
The commission, with no power to compel testimony or prosecute, faces daunting tasks both in verifying events and identifying victims, and in tracing a chain of responsibility. Under Roh's conservative successor, Lee Myung-bak, whose party is seen as democratic heir to the old autocratic right wing, the commission may find less budgetary and political support.
The roots of the summer 1950 bloodbath lie in the U.S.-Soviet division of Japan's former Korea colony in 1945, which precipitated north-south turmoil and eventual war.
In the late 1940s, President Syngman Rhee's U.S.-installed rightist regime crushed leftist political activity in South Korea, including a guerrilla uprising inspired by the communists ruling the north. By 1950, southern jails were packed with up to 30,000 political prisoners.
The southern government, meanwhile, also created the National Guidance League, a ``re-education'' organization for recanting leftists and others suspected of communist leanings. Historians say officials met membership quotas by pressuring peasants into signing up with promises of rice rations or other benefits. By 1950, more than 300,000 people were on the league's rolls, organizers said.
North Korean invaders seized Seoul, the southern capital, in late June 1950 and freed thousands of prisoners, who rallied to the northern cause. Southern authorities, in full retreat with their U.S. military advisers, ordered National Guidance League members in areas they controlled to report to the police, who detained them. Soon after, commission researchers say, the organized mass executions of people regarded as potential collaborators began - ``bad security risks,'' as a police official described the detainees at the time.
The declassified record of U.S. documents shows an ambivalent American attitude toward the killings. American diplomats that summer urged restraint on southern officials - to no obvious effect - but a State Department cable that fall said overall commander Gen. Douglas MacArthur viewed the executions as a Korean ``internal matter,'' even though he controlled South Korea's military.
Ninety miles south of Seoul, here in the narrow, peaceful valley of Sannae, truckloads of prisoners were brought in from Daejeon Prison and elsewhere day after day in July 1950, as the North Koreans bore down on the city.
The American photos, taken by an Army major and kept classified for a half-century, show the macabre sequence of events.
White-clad detainees - bent, submissive, with hands bound - were thrown down prone, jammed side by side, on the edge of a long trench. South Korean military and national policemen then stepped up behind, pointed their rifles at the backs of their heads and fired. The bodies were tipped into the trench.
Trembling policemen - ``they hadn't shot anyone before'' - were sometimes off-target, leaving men wounded but alive, Lee said. He and others were ordered to check for wounded and finish them off.
Evidence indicates South Korean executioners killed between 3,000 and 7,000 here, said commissioner Kim. A half-dozen trenches, each up to 150 yards long and full of bodies, extended over an area almost a mile long, said Kim Chong-hyun, 70, chairman of a group of bereaved families campaigning for disclosure and compensation for the Daejeon killings. His father, accused but never convicted of militant leftist activity, was one victim.
Another was Yeo Tae-ku's father, whose wife and mother searched for him afterward.
``Bodies were just piled upon each other,'' said Yeo, 59, remembering his mother's description. ``Arms would come off when they turned them over.'' The desperate women never found him, and the mass graves were quickly covered over, as were others in isolated spots up and down this mountainous peninsula, to be officially ``forgotten.''
When British communist journalist Alan Winnington entered Daejeon that summer with North Korean troops and visited the site, writing of ``waxy dead hands and feet (that) stick through the soil,'' his reports in the Daily Worker were denounced as ``fabrication'' by the U.S. Embassy in London. American military accounts focused instead on North Korean reprisal killings that followed in Daejeon.
But CIA and U.S. military intelligence documents circulating even before the Winnington report, classified ``secret'' and since declassified, told of the executions by the South Koreans. Lt. Col. Bob Edwards, U.S. Embassy military attache in South Korea, wrote in conveying the Daejeon photos to Army intelligence in Washington that he believed nationwide ``thousands of political prisoners were executed within (a) few weeks'' by the South Koreans.
Another glimpse of the carnage appeared in an unofficial U.S. source, an obscure memoir self-published in 1981 by the late Donald Nichols, a U.S. Air Force intelligence officer, who told of witnessing ``the unforgettable massacre of approximately 1,800 at Suwon,'' 20 miles south of Seoul.
Such reports lend credibility to a captured North Korean document from Aug. 2, 1950, eventually declassified by Washington, which spoke of mass executions in 12 South Korean cities, including 1,000 killed in Suwon and 4,000 in Daejeon.
That early, incomplete North Korean report couldn't include those executed in territory still held by the southerners. Up to 10,000 were killed in the city of Busan alone, a South Korean lawmaker, Park Chan-hyun, estimated in 1960.
His investigation came during a 12-month democratic interlude between the overthrow of Rhee and a government takeover by Maj. Gen. Park Chung-hee's authoritarian military, which quickly arrested many then probing for the hidden story of 1950.
Kim said his projection of at least 100,000 dead is based in part on extrapolating from a survey by non-governmental organizations in one province, Busan's South Gyeongsang, which estimated 25,000 killed there. And initial evidence suggests most of the National Guidance League's 300,000 members were killed, he said.
Commission investigators agree with the late Lt. Col. Edwards' note to Washington in 1950, that ``orders for execution undoubtedly came from the top,'' that is, President Rhee, who died in 1965.
But any documentary proof of that may have been destroyed, just as the facts of the mass killings themselves were buried. In 1953, after the war ended in stalemate, after the deaths of at least 2 million people, half or more of them civilians, a U.S. Army war crimes report attributed all summary executions here in Daejeon to the ``murderous barbarism'' of North Koreans.
Such myths survived a half-century, in part because those who knew the truth were cowed into silence.
``My mother destroyed all pictures of my father, for fear the family would get an image as leftists,'' said Koh Chung-ryol, 57, who is convinced her 29-year-old father was innocent of wrongdoing when picked up in a broad police sweep here, to die in Sannae valley.
``My mother tried hard to get rid of anything about her husband,'' she said. ``She suffered unspeakable pain.''
Even educated South Koreans remained ignorant of their country's past. As a young researcher in the late 1980s, Yonsei University's Park Myung-lim, today a leading Korean War historian, was deeply shaken as he sought out confidential accounts of those days from ordinary Koreans.
``I cried,'' he said. ``I felt, 'Oh, my goodness. Oh, Jesus. This was my country? It was true?'''
The Truth and Reconciliation Commission can recommend but not award compensation for lost and ruined lives, nor can it bring surviving perpetrators to justice. ``Our investigative power is so meager,'' commission President Ahn Byung-ook told the AP.
His immediate concern is resources. ``The current government isn't friendly toward us, and so we're concerned that the budget may be cut next year,'' he said.
South Korean conservatives complain the ``truth'' campaign will only reopen old wounds from a time when, even at the village level, leftists and rightists carried out bloody reprisals against each other.
The life of the commission - with a staff of 240 and annual budget of $19 million - is guaranteed by law until at least 2010, when it will issue a final, comprehensive report.
Later this spring and summer its teams will resume digging at mass grave sites. Thus far, it has verified 16 incidents of 1950-51 - not just large-scale detainee killings, but also such events as a South Korean battalion's cold-blooded killing of 187 men, women and children at Kochang village, supposed sympathizers with leftist guerrillas.
By exposing the truth of such episodes, ``we hope to heal the trauma and pain of the bereaved families,'' the commission says. It also wants to educate people, ``not just in Korea, but throughout the international community,'' to the reality of that long-ago conflict, to ``prevent such a tragic war from reoccurring in the future.''
CHARLES J. HANLEY and JAE-SOON CHANG, The Associated Press
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 5:13 PMInteresting. How many rightists did the Communist Korean and Chinese Army execute when they overran the South?
In any case, let's work for the Korean peninsula, as well as all nations and peoples of the Earth, to not fight wars of aggression...or against their own citizens. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 6:24 PMUS propaganda had claimed that these people murdered by the southern government were murdered by the north.
The U.S. intervention in Korea, from the very beginning, included a refusal to recognize the nation-wide Korean People’s Republic, a popular government with various ideologies that was formed by the Korean people immediately after the Japanese occupation was defeated. Instead, the US formed a government composed of the National Police of Japanese occupation, and also resurrected and incorporated other officials of the Japanese occupation. The Korean people saw this government imposed in the south as another occupation government, like that of Japan.
The northern government became composed, instead, of people who fought against the Japanese occupation, and that government carried out popular measures such as a land reform. In an attempt to stop the US imposed partition from becoming permanent, the popular demand in Korea was that instead of just holding elections in the south, elections should take place throughout the entire country of Korea. Elections imposed by the United States on southern Korea, under repressive conditions, that refused to include the north, were not seen by the Koreans as legitimate.
The U.S. set up the dictatorship of Syngman Rhee in 1945 without consulting the southern Korean people. They also sought, and gained, security agents of the Japanese occupation to do the dirty work for their new puppet dictator. The security forces carried out murderous repression against all opposition to Syngman Rhee's government in the name of "fighting communism". When the opposition is being rounded up and imprisoned, it is pretty hard to call an election free and fair. In 1948, under these conditions, Syngman Rhee carried out elections. His leftist opponents saw that the elections were undemocratic and boycotted them. Rhee's repressive anti-peasant policies also provoked an uprising that was put down. Two years after the fraudulent elections, Syngman Rhee lined up and shot over 100,000 leftists and suspected leftist supporters.
The puppet government the imperialists imposed was oppressing everyone opposed to it. In addition, opposition, and insurrection was coming from everywhere in the country, not just the northern part.
After the US carried out the elections against the will of the Korean people in the south, the north had their own elections and elected Kim Il Sung. Yet, don't communists have a right to participate in a democracy? Didn't the people of Korea have a right to decide what kind of government they wanted without the US dividing their country and imposing a murderous puppet dictator in the south?
Two governments were formed that didn't fully represent the needs of the Korean people: A Stalinist government to the north that carried out land reform and other progressive policies and was widely seen as a government of those who had fought against Japanese occupation. And to the south, a government of old Japanese occupiers, with a new repressive dictator, was formed by the United States, which carried out none of the progressive policies of the north.
This led to widespread rebellion in the south and brutal repression by the southern government. This instigated the war, with the northerners seeing US/Rhee treatment of their fellow southern Koreans as a disgrace that must be ended. With the help of the southern population, the north quickly took control of most of the country, including Seoul.
The US then bombed the country until not a single building was standing. US/UN intervention in that civil war murdered 5,000,000 Koreans. That’s five million Koreans and 54,000 Americans dead in defense of the murderous, US imposed, Syngman Rhee dictatorship. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 7:02 PM>The US then bombed the country until not a single building was standing.
And then they killed your parents before you could be conceived! Whatever. Propaganda is propaganda...and doesn't help lead towards a peaceful world... -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 3:15 PMWhat a wierd comment. No, they didn't kill my parents, they did, however, kill 5,000,000 people. Truth is truth, whatever label you want to put on it. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 9:52 AM>>>The US then bombed the country until not a single building was standing.
>>And then they killed your parents before you could be conceived! Whatever. Propaganda is propaganda...and doesn't help lead towards a peaceful world...
>What a wierd comment.
It was hyperbole. A satire of your journalistic 'integrity'...a prime example of which permeates this thread.
But, I suspect, that you already knew that but didn't want to address the implication directly. Still, I love addressing the implication directly:
You are about distorting the truth for your own political ends. Ends, that I might add, are not clear from your continuous spam bombing of many progressive forums here on tribe. Do you do this to conservative forums too? Probably not--they probably just eject you...or you participate there in a much different manner...whatever. Please stop diluting progressive forums with your propagandistic drivel. Whether this is an honest or heartfelt effort on your part is hard to decipher because, well, you come across as someone who has bought into an agenda that obviously would take a lot of effort to tease out...otherwise, you wouldn't bother just dumping page after page of blech onto various progressive forums.
Also, take a peace studies class for heavens sake! The way you are going about "conversing" through information bombing of forums is not the way to get to garner broad consensus at all...on peace...nor on any other issue you profess to support. Or, rather, it appears to be an intellectual attempt to do so, usually disingenuous but sometimes simply the product of naive enthusiasm.
Still, I'd love to see you post a topic discussing what peace is to you personally rather than always posting what appears to be drivel from The Sparticus Youth League or USG Agent Provocateurs™ or whereever most of the junk you spam forums with comes from. It really is a shame that so many wishing to honestly discuss topics on peace have to wade through the political drivel you've been spewing for the past several years. But, given that you live in a political and social environment that currently is not your ideal, you will obviously be allowed to continue on, careening around progressive forums, until you (hopefully) get a clue, get fired from you "job" of spamming progressive forums, or whatever. Frankly, this forum sucks because of spamming like your's. It's mostly bunk and the little grains of truth in it can't be discussed because of the taint you place on all the topics you've touched on...in my opinion. I can't really speak for all the other folks who don't bother to participate here any longer. Yet...you do? -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 3:35 PMTMibo says, "You are about distorting the truth for your own political ends."
No Tmibo, it is you who seems to not be able to recognize the truth.
What I have posted here is true and well documented. The US imposed Syngman Rhee dictatorship murdered 100,000 people in the summer of 1950. The US war to protect that murderous regime murdered millions more.
You seem to be a very angry man TMibo, to participate in such holocaust denial and attack the messenger as “distorting the truth”, in your futile attempts to distract from the very real crimes against humanity by Syngman Rhee and US imperialism. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 8:01 AMI'm disheartened by your methods and distortions, that much is true. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 8:06 AM
I haven't distorted a thing.
What I have posted here is true and well documented. The US imposed Syngman Rhee dictatorship murdered 100,000 people in the summer of 1950. The US war to protect that murderous regime murdered about 5,000,000 more and left 54,000 US soldiers dead. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Thu, May 29, 2008 - 3:23 PMOne of my wishes is to see a United Korea, It's seems so far from reality, Oh the horrors that people commited even against their own in the 20th century, I wish people everywhere would stop and question their country's morality and nationalism that can so easily lead to this type of degradation and genocide. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Fri, May 30, 2008 - 6:04 PMNothing wrong with that...just that it's much less likely to happen...as we saw in Korea...when ideology and fanaticism see to trump truth and reconciliation. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Fri, May 30, 2008 - 6:10 PMMy comment at 6:04PM was directed at Abe, not Citizen Argue.
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sat, May 31, 2008 - 1:11 PMMTimbo says, "Nothing wrong with that...just that it's much less likely to happen...as we saw in Korea...when ideology and fanaticism see to trump truth and reconciliation. "
Sort of like how your ideology gets in the way when you talk to me TMibo? -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sat, May 31, 2008 - 7:52 PMActually, it is your incessant demand to disrupt this forum that get my regular attention...this...and several other progressive forums here on tribe. The tactics you are using are reminiscent of a political propoganda leaflet bombing...not only that, they are usually designed to turn off moderates to the supposed topics that these forums are supposedly about. You attempt to radicalize without any concern for anyone else's agenda but your own. Too bad you continue to get away with it unchecked in this forum...a forum that should not be about loud shouting of slogans but about calm resolve to have peaceful discussions about peace. But, you're right--that is my position...and it does seem to be the opposite of your's. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 11:33 AMTMibo is trying to shut me up because of his rabid adherence to some ideology that wants to ignore US crimes against humanity in Korea.
He hasn't even come up with one fact that refutes anything I've posted on this.
I will not be silenced.
If he doesn’t like what I have to say, there is nothing forcing him to read my posts. In addition, if he hates the truth of US war crimes so much, he can go ahead start his own pro-war and pro-imperialist group and deny me access. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 11:37 AMI can't silence you--that's your point. But I can also point out that the effect of your histrionic tribe spamming is shutting down a lot of potential allies of the movements that the forums you post in should be about. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 11:50 AMYou haven't pointed out a thing, except that you are a hostile angry person.
Do you support US imperialism's dictatorship and mass murder in Korea? If so, perhaps it is you who doesn't belong in a peace group. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 12:03 PMYou wrote:
>>The US then bombed the country until not a single building was standing.
True? Or false? Any other countries where this has happened? You know, the bombing of every single building so that none were standing in some country...by U.S forces? Sounds like propagandistic hoo-ha to me...and to others...but you are aware of that...which begs the question of why you would be spreading your hoo-ha here. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 12:20 PMThat's the information supplied to me by Will Reisner, an expert on the American War in Korea. He said this was the case. The bombing was very extreme and massive. It was only after this mass murder through bombing that U.S. troops were able to invade and take much of the country. -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 12:49 PM>That's the information supplied to me by Will Reisner
*sigh*
Again, I ask you, do you believe that all buildings in the Korean peninsula were levelled by American forces in 1950-51? -
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Re: 1950: 100,000 Executed by Imperialism's Korean Dictatorship
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 2:52 PMWell, Will Reisner was right when he said the South Korean puppet dictatorship executed 100,000 leftists and suspected leftists just before the war started. The corporate media and US government dismissed that as propaganda, but now it is common knowledge. Will Reisner also said that every building was leveled in the bombing campaign. This fits the fact the US war murdered five million people, and I do know the damage was VERY extreme. All you would have to do is find a building that stayed up during the bombing campaign to prove me wrong and I'll admit my source was mistaken. That would be more meaningful than you just expressing doubts on a fact that has been provided by a source who has proven himself to be better than most on the subject. -
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Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 5:41 PMBut, now that we've established that your source might be mistaken, what makes you so sure he is right on all other points? The mark of unreasonable and rhetorically absolutest statement of "facts" that can easily be disproved does not point to the likelihood of honest historical documentation of a conflict at all. Further, while you may continue to try to shout me down when I point out errors in ideology, methodology, and avoid addressing them by making me out to be someone who has "bought in" to some vast "conspiracy against socialist revolution", it is unlikely that you will reach a peaceful resolution, revolution, or whatever else it is you are trying to achieve by spamming this and many other tribes.
Seriously, dude, I don't doubt that American soldiers committed atrocities in Korean. But, I also don't doubt that Chinese soldiers, and North Korean and South Korean soldiers also did. And most reasonable people probably would agree that denying that would be irrational...yet you fail to mention that in your diatribe...which means you aren't talking about peace but are talking about blame. Blaming me for pointing out that there was obvious irregularities in the history you cited...irregularities that you yourself couldn't bring yourself to face until now, long after you'd probably alienated most folks who cared to discuss a peaceful resolution in Korea.
But, it is an old tactic you use. Find people who will put up with your histrionics. Isolate them in some way from folks who can point out the easily found logical flaws in much of your reasoning. And then use them for whatever your ends might be...not considering them as equal human beings because, well, they bought into your stilted methods towards the beginning. And freedom of speech, here in this society, gives you that easy luxury, doesn't it. Once you gain control though, you can't have freedom of speech threatening to upset the applecart though. That might mean people discussing some of the flawed logic and inherent broken promises in a regime that uses shouting as the best way to "align the masses".
OR THE ALTERNATIVE...which is that you are a either an unwilling or willing dupe of the powers that you profess to be against, creating dissensions in tribes that threaten to upset the groups that actually do threaten the agenda you keep harping on.
EITHER does seem to be doing a disservice to a forum that is supposedly about peace, especially when you don't start topics discussing peace and try to work to some political conclusion Socratically...instead, you start from the premise that you must outshout and shout down your opponents or they may get the better of you. Ugh. Tired of it. -
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 11:10 AM
Tmibo said, "But, now that we've established that your source might be mistaken,..."
I am always somewhat open to the possibility that any source could be mistaken. I think my source is probably right about the extent of the damage US bombing caused, but you keep insisting he is wrong without any evidence. I have tried to reach out to you and establish that I am listening to you and if you can present any evidence that my source was wrong, I'll admit my error.
Tmibo said, "what makes you so sure he is right on all other points?"
The only other point that I presented from him was: "Will Reisner was right when he said the South Korean puppet dictatorship executed 100,000 leftists and suspected leftists just before the war started. The corporate media and US government dismissed that as propaganda, but now it is common knowledge."
If you read the article from the mainstream press I posted that started this thread, it documents these murders pretty well.
As for the crimes you suspect, but do not document, by North Korea and China. None of your imaginary or real crimes by those forces justify the mass murder of 100,000 leftists and suspected leftists by the US imposed puppet dictatorship in southern Korea.
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 5:22 PM>I think my source is probably right about the extent of the damage US bombing caused, but you keep insisting he is wrong without any evidence.
So, you are saying that you believe it likely that Americans leveled every building on the Korean peninsula in 1950-51?
>None of your imaginary or real crimes by those forces justify the mass murder of 100,000 leftists and suspected leftists by the US imposed puppet dictatorship in southern Korea.
I did not seek to justify them. But you seek to exonerate other forces in Korea irrationally. And, again, you try to put words in my mouth as part of your rhetorical distortions and untruths. You will continue to be called on all of the above until you cease lying and hyperbole for your obviously off-kilter political echeloning of progressive forums that I participate in.
And, while we're at it, let's get on to the subject of free speech verses productive discussion...for instance, why is your own coolparty tribe moderated? Could it be that you don't want the same disruptions there that you bring here? That perhaps you want to limit debate so you can't be called on obvious historical inaccuracies like "Americans levelled all of the buildings in Korea!"
You can't build peace without violence through tactics and thinking such as you demonstrate...both your rhetoric and tactics appear to be the tactic of the fanatic and/or the agent provocateur... -
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 5:37 PM
What nonsense. "TMibo", I tire of answering your false attacks.
Obviously you are not part of the solution, only here to attack those who are. -
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 12:50 AMWell, as soon as you've left, let me know.
>Obviously you are not part of the solution, only here to attack those who are.
Who is? You and your spam bombing of several progressive tribes that all, not so coincidentally, seem to be about getting people to join "The Cool Party"? -
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:00 AM
I'm not leaving, and "TMibo's" attacks in an attempt to silence me in an apparent attempt to support the US imperialist war in Korea, won't make me do so.
As I've already responded, Korea was bombed by the United States to the point where an expert on the war said that not a single building was left standing. "TMibo" has come up with no evidence to refute that point.
I've done plenty of traveling, and I'm sure I get along with people a lot better than racists who see people as "gooks" and "towel heads", or people like “TMibo”, who can somehow see criticism of US wars that murder millions as unbalanced if they don’t also criticize the victims. I've lived in countries where the US was carrying out the mass murder of leftists, suspected leftists, unionists, peasants, and even just the general population, including children. I was hugged, invited into homes, shared meals, and told that they didn’t blame me for the crimes of my government.
The United States intervenes in other countries for three reasons. The first two are to continue and expand US corporate access to cheap labor and cheap resources. The third is to make corporate profit from arms production, generally at US tax payer expense.
The US supports and installs horrible dictators and the CIA trains their death squads and torturers. The US goes to war against those people who rid themselves of, or who try to rid themselves of, these puppet governments. At times, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US government decides that the repressive governments the US helped install are a problem for US corporate profit, and the US government goes to war against them as well.
With the US war in Iraq now causing the deaths of over a million people and the US trillions of dollars in debt and on the verge of economic collapse, I don’t see how you expect me to see good in US imperialist war. What is it good for? -
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:42 AMKorea Germany the East Block, Indo-China even Japan was about to be split in half because Russia was so greedy to have it's share and be a super power, Nationalism is so dangerous because it can lead to Imperialism which initially makes war with it's neighbors but then sows the seeds of hate to make them make war on each other, it's so bad. I hope we never have this type of egotistical competition between super powers again!
Let peace reign, I would rather die from overpopulation and slowly starved then see my homeland devastated and children murdered by war.
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Re: Dupe Regurgitates Easily Disprovable Propaganda As Fact--Gets Away Regularly With It In Peace Forum!! Hold The Press!!
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:50 PM>I'm not leaving, and "TMibo's" attacks in an attempt to silence me in an apparent attempt to support the US imperialist war in Korea, won't make me do so.
I never said I supported any U.S. imperialist war in Korea--again, you are creating a bogey man and throwing yourself against your own creation. In fact, you create labels for people and things you don't get along with and then go at them...rather than seeking reason or compromise. It's sad, really...and certainly not a good negotiating tactic where peace is concerned.
But, I expect you to continue this tactic unabated...here...and elsewhere...particularly in your "Cool Earth Party" organizing. I suspect that that is a conscious effort on your part to disrupt this and other progressive forums and movement. Of course, I could be wrong and your nutty style might also just be just that...vanilla nutty. Or, with maybe a modicum of respect for other folks who use the Internet and try to actually have on topic discussions in various fourms, maybe you'll learn to stop your rude spamming and/or get a life outside of what seems to me to be falling into a pattern of being the dupe for reactionary political playbooks. -
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"Tmibo" accuses me of disruption while he does nothing for peace
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:47 AM
"Tmibo" says, "I never said I supported any U.S. imperialist war in Korea".
No, I never said you did say that, but you haven't said anything against it either. And your hatred towards me for speaking out against US war crimes in Korea seems to suggest you have another agenda that you are hiding from people.
"Tmibo" keeps accusing me of getting my facts wrong, but hasn't even attempted to disprove a single one.
"Tmibo" accuses me of disruption while he does nothing for peace and only attacks those who do.
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